Alternating current (AC) is the preferred power for most O Gauge three-rail trains as well as some two-rail systems in smaller scales. I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. Lots of good tips for building a layout from two of the most experienced people in the hobby. It states: 1.25 amps for each motor, 0.2 amps for each bulb. All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. The higher powered units would not meet todays safety standards as issued by Underwriters Laboratories. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! LGB throttles 51070, 52120 and 52121 will all work with the 50061 and other LGB transformers. If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. What size Lionel transformer do I need? American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. Its a bargain at that price. Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading. Lionel 1033 90 watt Transformer Postwar from 1950s-60s Whistle, Direction. First, a few general notes about choosing wire. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. This is because the demands for power are becoming more than your transformer can handle. The multi-conductor wire is also available. Outdoor railroads are, of course, an exception! The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-Hertz power. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered These can all have uses for your layout. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. The Atlas and Bachmann 80 watt transformers, they are one and the same, can be had for around $75.00. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. Ive talked about why here. The smaller the number, the larger the wire. Beginners Ask Trains New trains; old transformers. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. Here are a couple examples: As you can see, with a bit of experimentation and imagination, numerous different track layouts can be created. If you like, tell us more about yourself. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. Three conductor wire is common for household use. :-). For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. We're sorry. Some of the variables are obvious, others not so much. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I Peter Fenzel 306 subscribers Subscribe 11K views 3 years ago Lionel 1033 Transformer gets cleaned up, a new power cord, a new whistle rectifier. Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). Can't plug into outlet? Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. Of course, the answer to that question depends on many things. To participate you must either login or register for an account. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. If mixing both non-command as well as command engines, both by the way will run without any thing other than the appropriate transformer, it really depends on the budget. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. Been there, done that. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. It would be advantageous if OGR magazine would put an article together comparing the major manufacturers transformers output waveform compatibility/ incompatibilitywith the various manufacturer's locomotives - Atlas O, Weaver, 3rd Rail, MTH , Lionel etc and conventional , DCS , TMCC, Legacy command control. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. A: According to Lionel's head of customer service, on the underside of their CW80 transformers, starting in late 2009, the vendor applied a sticker that states "QC50" on it. Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. Turn on the throttle, then short the A and U posts (in the case of Lionel) or variable and base posts (in the case of Flyer) with a screwdriver or a piece of wire for a maximum of five seconds. I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Theres nothing inherently wrong with them, though I would shy away from the smaller transformers that are less than 75 watts, including the modern CW-40. If youre buying a transformer, youll be able to easily find one that a professional refurbished and upgraded with the links I provide below. Besides the train and track, accessories provide a lot of fun and animation to any setup. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. Power the odd blocks with the other transformer. What does a Lionel transformer do? But it is important to take a close look at the cars to make sure that they are a good match for your set. The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. In most cases, because we are dealing with relatively low voltage and amperage and in a normally stable temperature and humidity climates, our wiring does not require any extra insulation. While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. Please see our article on Fastrack here for more information. Effort. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. With the ever-increasing amount of small electronics in today's sophisticated models, this protection is more important than ever. The motor takes electricity through a small wire attached to a metal wheel that rests on the middle rail underneath. Sell Your Trains Through an Online Auction Service. I have purchased diodes to put into the older transformers to see if this resolves the issue with newer tenders. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. Although it will not have any impact on the performance of the wire within, choosing multiple colors of wire, and standardizing on a specific color for each function, will go a long way in making your wiring easier to install and easier to detect flaws later on. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! Most two-rail track systems use direct current (DC). Then power every other one with one of your smaller transformers. Now, I am going to make a suggesstion that you use a larger diameter curve for your corners. That was before all the technician assemby work was outsourced overseas and they left the poor engineers to fend for themselves. That means there are lots of them. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! Twin coil machines have a higher current draw when in motion but are also much faster-acting than the motorized versions. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. They run on three rail track. Yes, but the train will probably run too fast, depending on the output voltage of the transformer. You don't really need a diagram -- you want to pick your interval (some would recommend as often as 3'), drill a hole down through your base, and connect a wire to a bus which runs beneath the layout and connects to your transformer (obviously, you need two wires, one for each powered rail). Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. These sets use a remote control which talks directly to a receiver in the locomotive. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. With two switches, you can create an alternative route for your trains. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. This tool only evaluates common voltages for North America (ie. Needless to say the "Spring into Spring" train show very nearly became unsprung! White and black are common selections. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. Lionel Trains Pocket Price Guide 1901-2022. Get updates and special offers via email from Trains.com brands! As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. Not really a how-to-build-a-layout book, but it is a good general introduction to the hobby full of interesting stuff. Price Received. I went to mth Z1000, jason's train shop has the best price's I have seen for these. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. If you are using only LEDs for lighting, you could get away with even less. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Transformer sizing for new systems The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. Likewise, if you only want to run one train at a time, you can keep other trains on the track by wiring with blocks, and turning off trains that are not in use. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. I've read that it is good practice to add feeders every 10 sections of track or sothat seems like a lot but I suppose that beats having "dead" spots in the track. The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. 12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz pure sine inverter. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? Mike to the forum. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. THE BASICS "O", "S", "HO". And that means theyre affordable. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. Some people even find it fun. HO gauge is very popular because of its size. Do not connect this product to any other power supply. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. Lionel introduced a few LionChief Plus 2.0 starter sets in 2022. The two types of cars will connect together just fine, but when side-by-side in a train, they may look a bit odd. I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. UpBright 18V AC/DC Adapter Compatible with Lionel O Gauge Fastrack 10" Remote Control Terminal Straight LionChief System Track 6-1923100 HKYF45-180230T-US DC18V 2300mA 18VDC Power Supply Cord Charger. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. To my knowledge, you should have no compatibility issues with a pure sine wave track feed with any major brand locomotive. It does not work with O27. The same is true for other electronic projects around your layout and inside buildings, train cars, and even locomotives. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. This wire is very fine and can be found in many color combinations. its the amount of engines you need to worry about, I'm currently running my entire layout on a single DC power supply that came with an Athearn engine/track set. Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. properly wired transformer can handle any amount of track. My current layout uses about 28 sections of track (Lionel o-27). Early issues used a Bakelite case while later releases had a case made out of plastic. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. What do I need to do that with? It is best to use at least two different colors for your track wiring (one for each rail). Transformers are designed to fail if a short in the secondary or control side occurs. Its a good transformer. Effort. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. If you're looking to only have one loop with multiple sidings then you'll only need 1 source of power for the whole layout. The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. electronically controlled outputs. To determine the required transformer VA, multiply the secondary voltage by the required amperes: For example, VA=Volts x Amperes or 28V x 1.2 amperes = 33.6 VA. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. As the train goes by, the door to the shed opens and a figure pops out, and once the train has passed the figure re-enters the building and the door shuts. All power supplies will be rated for volts, amps, and watts. Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. Do not use this device if water is present. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Sell Your Trains Yourself At Train Shows. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. (8 lights X 20 watts = 160 watts). A rule of thumb from the elders, (I had to go to the mountain top for this one), Add 2 more watts for Spankybird's fun-filled layout!
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